Forum Replies Created
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6 June 2025 at 4:33 am #1058
I just loaded and measured the file you e-mailed to me last night. The magnitude is about the same, but the MB phase is way off. Not sure why –
I’m e-mailing you the file I finished with yesterday afternoon, as well as two pics of the Open Sound Meter screen to compare.6 June 2025 at 2:51 am #1057Thank you again for your continued prompt personal attention and support!
Yes, when I’m working through the tabs, I like to keep the “Second View” window open to monitor the final “Show FIR filtered spkr” output curves. Nice feature!
The Mag and Phase outputs in the file you sent to me last night look very similar to my last revision yesterday morning (Noon-ish June 4th here in LR, AR). I do want to explore further your most recent suggestions, please:
– I’m still generally confused by the respective passband delays. I understand the overall “flight time” compensation for EV’s 10′ measurement distance to the front of the speaker cabinet and the -458ms we originally entered in the Import Tab for all three passbands. The EV-provided IIR presets I’ve used for years include delay parameters compensating for the internal horizontal depth of the components LF Mb HF (XVLT 20 15 25 samples) (XVLS 21 0 20 samples). They are slightly different because the “T” is 120×8.5 degrees, the “S” is 90×5 degrees beamwidth. I asked if I leave those in or out – in the file I finished yesterday, they’re out, and from my testing and listening yesterday, it’s all good. But I’ll make the changes today and evaluate.
– It appears you’ve removed 10ms more from the Import Tab “Delay Adjustment” for all three passbands, then reduced the equivalent (values from IIR preset) passbands by 15 samples. What’s the purpose / result / benefit? Will this be an issue for the XVLS preset? XVLS MB is relative time 0 (deepest from the front of both models). It’s important because XVLS and XVLT are used together in vertical line arrays, and part of the reason for this entire adventure is creating new FIR presets which work well in combined arrays. For example, a typical arena hang is 8 or 10 XVLS with 2 or 3 XVLT underneath.
– I didn’t know any better than to leave the FIR Setup Filter Lengths at 200 and 2048 (Powersoft limit). What is the advantage / result of the shortening you did?
– You have a 4th Order APF in the HF, in addition to the Auto Phase. It’s below but slightly overlapping the 1200 low end of the Auto Phase. As far as I can tell, the resulting overall phase response is the same as my existing version (close to 0 down to 370-ish). Why?
Keeping all this in perspective, we’re already at a great improvement in what I’m hearing and measuring compared to the original EV IIR V4.1 from a decade ago. I appreciate your patience and tolerance with my tedious study of the details. Each iteration of question / answer + suggestions, etc. has been a great learning experience for me. Thank you again.
RBT
4 June 2025 at 3:51 am #1054Thank you very much for the thorough explanation and suggestions! I’ll do my best to work through those – it’s still a steep learning curve for me.
Addressing a few of your points initially, which leads to more questions:
– Although I’m starting with EV’s Mag and Phase measurements for one cabinet in their anechoic chamber (specified as “10ft 4VRMS 1/12 Oct”), I am also starting with their latest IIR preset parameters, which I’ve used for years and have been generally happy with their “voicing”. My expectation with FIRdM is simply to improve the phase linearity and get even better sound, taking advantage of the modern DSP available in my Powersoft X-Series amplifiers.
– Because the measurement files are > 25 years old, DEC mentioned some uncertainty about whether they are “flight time corrected” or not. As you suspected, the IIR presets do reflect the respective devices’ relative physical path length differences: LF 20 samples, MB 15 samples, HF 25 samples. I did the Import adjustment (-458 samples) you mentioned, but I also left in those smaller path length adjustments. Or, should I have turned them off? It measures and sounds good with them on.
I have not received the examples e-mail you mentioned. But I’m going to send you the revised .fds I worked on this morning after reading your message. I welcome your thoughts and further suggestions, please. I did use the Auto Phase, and it looks nice and flat, except I could figure out what to do for the LF. My OSM measurement also shows the phase wraps in the low-mid, although it’s difficult for me to get good measurements in the limited space in my warehouse area.
Thank you again for your continued personal attention and support!
RBT3 June 2025 at 4:16 am #1052(NOTE: I inadvertently followed up this general thread previously under a different thread, see posts # 1049 and 1050)
I was able to get this to work (Magnitude only) by modifying the text files (I used Notepad++).However, I’m now in possession of more complete original files from Electro-Voice (thanks to their now-retired chief engineer back then, DE Carlson). I was able to get reasonably good, usable presets with Mag only. When I used the Mag + Phase files and apply Auto Phase, the Export output is unusable. My guess is that there’s something not quite right in the new .txt measurement files, although they do import properly without error. Or, I may need a much better understanding of how to “Window” things?
30 May 2025 at 9:54 am #1049I’m blessed to have received original speaker response .txt files (LF MB HF) for the EV XLVS and XVLT from the retired Electro-Voice chief engineer who led their XLine line array speaker system project 25-30 years ago. He sent me .txt with Magnitude only several weeks ago, using which I built presets successfully.
This morning, he (found) and sent the more complete files which contain BOTH Magnitude and Phase. However, when I worked through the tabs building new presets today, I noticed anything I did with FIR Phase or Auto Phase failed the output Export files. Could it be as simple as the column / starting value of the .txt files? Please provide a better / more thorough description of the proper required Import file format and syntax, etc.
I am able to send an example .txt file to you if that helps – I don’t see how to attach it to do this request…
Thank you for your continued prompt personal attention and assistance.
RBT28 March 2025 at 1:11 am #1014Thank you for your response, regardless.
That’s what I was afraid of – the EV .sps files are proprietary to their IRIS system. As I mentioned in my original inquiry, none of the engineers who worked on the XLine system 25+ years ago are still with EV. So far I haven’t found anyone there now who knows anything about it. As I also mentioned, because I’m brand-loyal to the Powersoft, I don’t have access to the old IRIS hardware.
My backup plan is to use the latest IIR presets, which I have used for years and like the sound, feed them into FIR Designer-M, and create new, similar, but phase-linear versions.
I appreciate your thoughts and continued personal attention and assistance.
RBT27 March 2025 at 6:02 am #1011Mic check one two –
Please verify those EV presets will load properly and convert to Powersoft DTP, and I’ll purchase –
Thanks!
RBT26 March 2025 at 3:01 am #1009Here’s a link to the latest EV XLine IRIS presets. Will these files (“.sps”) Import > File directly, as you described?
https://products.electrovoice.com/downloadfile.php?id=96874
Thanks again –
RBT26 March 2025 at 2:51 am #1008Thank you very much for your detailed reply and information.
I’m an old dog (50 years in pro audio) learning new tricks.
May I please have a phone conversation regarding this topic prior to purchase?
Thanks again –
RBT -
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