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7 June 2024 at 4:01 pm #827Yes, the Lake Mesa mode in Data Modeler mimics the Lake EQ used on the front of Lake modules and Lake Controller groups. We made this for Data Modeler since that product is aimed at system alignment, where users are using the Lake EQ.
No, there are no immediate plans to put this into FIR Designer, primarily because there isn’t currently an easy way to send this information to the Lake Controller through the Lake Controller SDK API. (This may change in the future.)
All Lake modules have an instance of Lake EQ on the input, followed by Lake IIR filters for the input and output EQ and crossovers. We currently only emulate the IIR filters.
Best regards,
EA Support
5 June 2024 at 9:46 am #825Hi John,
Glad you got it working. We were about to suggest exactly what you did with adding a phase column. There’s an option, on the FIR Designer Target tab, to either ignore the phase and use magnitude only.
For TXT and CSV import, a file with:
– 2 columns is treated as an time impulse response (with 1st column as a timestamp and the 2nd column the impulse response coefficients).
– 3 columns is treated as frequency (Hz), magnitude (dB) and phase (deg).
– 4 columns is treated as per 3, with the 4 column as coherence (between 0 and 100 %)Best regards,
EA Support
31 May 2024 at 7:43 am #822The manufacturer of Prodigy.mp told me the following:
The FIR filters in PRODIGY.MP are special filters with an additional recursive element.
This allows us to achieve a higher frequency resolution in the lower range with a relatively short length.
The price for this is that only minimal phase filters are possible, not linear phase ones.
This certainly explains the CSV format, where only support frequencies and the associated level are specified.Thanks. So this tells me they are importing a magnitude response, as a CSV of frequency (Hz) and level (dB), and converting this into a minimum-phase filter response – with some of the filtering implemented using IIR filters (which are recursive) and some as a short FIR filter. This makes sense.
Our (FIR Designer and FIR Creator) products can make arbitrary phase filters – i.e. they can be any combination of minimum-phase, linear-phase and maximum-phase – but the exported output is time domain FIR coefficients. Again, see the “FIR Filter Guide” referenced above.
Best regards,
EA Support
30 May 2024 at 5:17 pm #820In Armonia, we have 3 different windows on which we can EQ, they are shown in the amplifier view on the left:
First one is Advanced EQ, second one is Speaker EQ, and last is Ways (output EQ). FIR Designer is able to output to the last 2, which are very similar in the fact that they both can handle FIR and IIR. Advanced EQ is only IIR, and is the same EQ layer used in the groups:
Here for example, we have multiple groups. We can add any and all speakers to a group, and these use the Advanced EQ type (no FIR):
We can import .xml files, but those made for Speaker and Output EQ in FIRDesigner do not work:
Also, we cannot export to .xml, only to the proprietary format, .iqp, that you can find attached. I do not think it would be very different to export to this EQ type, the easiest way would be to add this possibility to the save IIR coefs in the IIR tab, so we could export to xml, and directly import in a group.
The Speaker and Output EQ with FIR still work in Armonia, the fact is that on a site with more than 2 speakers, opening each amplifier, load EQs one by one to each output is very time consuming, and you cannot benefit from the visual feedback that the workspace view offers.
I hope this helps !
This Powersoft Advanced EQ is different to traditional IIR filters. It’s very similar to Lake EQ (found in the Lake Controller and which initially appeared in the 2000’s) and it uses filter prototype shapes* which are combined into a composite EQ curve or response. In the background, all the group curves, which affect a particular loudspeaker, are summed and converted into a minimum-phase filter response.
At the moment we can’t emulate this kind of EQ in FIR Designer. (However we have created an emulation of the Lake EQ and it’s just been released in Rational Acoustics “Data Modeler” software.)
* Lake named some of these filter prototypes “raised cosine” and “mesa” filters.
Best regards,
EA Support
9 April 2024 at 5:41 am #807Hi Alex,
It sounds like you have a FIR Designer perpetual license which is bug fixes only. (4.0.3 is the latest on the 4.0 perpetual license.) To upgrade to the latest, take a look at:
Best regards,
EA Support-
This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by EA Support.
30 March 2024 at 8:32 am #804Thanks for your patience. Version 4.2.3 is now fixed. Restart FIR Designer and the app will give you the update link.
Best regards,
EA Support
30 March 2024 at 7:11 am #803Our sincere apologies, and thank you for reporting this. We’ll get right on it.
Best regards,
EA Support
29 March 2024 at 9:05 pm #800Thank you very much for using the forum. We’ve recently had some problems with the new update alert feature in versions since 4.1.1. For this specific issue, please contact us through the eclipseaudio.com contact form, with your license ID, and we’ll send you the link. (We don’t provide the licensable download links publicly.)
Best regards,
EA Support
28 March 2024 at 10:21 am #798Thanks again for reporting this. We’ve found the problem and a fix will be in the next releases of both FIR Designer and FIR Designer M.
Regards,
EA Support
23 March 2024 at 7:45 am #792Understood. Even just increasing the channel count of the app involves significant UI work which we don’t have time for right now, but we’ll note this as a potential update for the future.
Regards,
EA Support
13 March 2024 at 7:20 am #789We don’t have much experience tuning line arrays. I know some systems, that don’t have FIR capability, do perform HF adjustment (as you described) using IIR filters or minimum phase FIR filters (which are essentially equivalent). The brands I’m thinking of treat the line as roughly 3 zones – short throw (lower boxes), medium throw (mid boxes) and long throw (upper boxes).
With FIR you can do things somewhat differently. For example you can EQ the whole array as one using IIR (or minimum phase FIR) – this retains the line array behaviour, particularly at LF and MF – then use FIR for “linear-phase” filtering of upper MF and HF for different groups of cabinets – upper, mid or lower. My understanding is that L’Acoustics array optimisation takes this approach, and some other brands may also.
Linear-phase FIR filters are a subset of FIR filters and have the same effective delay across all frequencies. For more on linear-phase FIR filters, read
Best regards,
EA Support
8 March 2024 at 8:10 am #787I’ve contacted DFM asking for the IIR parameters. Please let me know which information you need in detail.
Thanks. See the section “Branded IIR Filter Emulation” on
Regarding the Multiway FIR I have some questions:
– We mainly use multi-way speakers with active processing (no passive crossovers). So, I want to know the differences (advantages and disadvantages) between making the X-OVER using IIR HPF and LPF and enventually All-Pass filter for Phase slope correction, and then use a FIR in the input to flattern the phase from around 400Hz and above – and using FIR on each way instead of IIR.If both approaches result in the same transfer function, and you have the processing flexibility available, then there is no advantage of one method over the other method. However, doing crossovers and phase unwrapping all in FIR usually requires longer FIR filters, than doing a mixed IIR+FIR approach, and the maximum available FIR filter lengths in your processor might not be long enough. So mixed IIR+FIR might be the most viable for you.
Also with FIR, even though the software can calculate very fine and high-Q correction filters, we suggest taking care not to correct specifically for one measurement at one level. To help, we provide measurement averaging – the last tab in the workflow. You can use this to spatially overage measurements (and/or average measurements from different levels) then use the averaged measurement in the FIR Designer workflow.
Best regards,
EA Support
15 February 2024 at 2:42 pm #781I’ll email you directly. BTW what version do you currently have? The ‘new version available’ should provide a link, but there were some issues with this link approximately a year back, due to macOS changes.
Regards,
EA Support
5 February 2024 at 6:15 am #777BTW What microphone is this calibration file for? Between 20 Hz and 20 kHz, the file has a range of approximately -17 dB to +10 dB, and with an approximately 15 dB jump just above 16 kHz. This seems way too much variation for a measurement microphone. I would expect something in the range of -3 to 3 dB, and with very minimal phase change.
Regards,
EA Support -
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